I'm curious what, if anything, you all think that the IndieWeb as a community could do or do better to make things easier for Generation 2 users? by Chris AldrichChris Aldrich (Chris Aldrich)

Hi Chris,
I am not sure there is much that the IndieWeb as a community can do more that the amazing efforts that are going on at the moment.

This reply turns out to be a bit of a ramble…

I think at this stage of the development of IndieWeb there is bound to be friction for new users.

I am certainly aware that some of my posts must sound like ungrateful whining (this is hard, I don’t understand, I am so confused…) hopefully if seen in the round some enthusiasm for the IndieWeb will shine through.

I doubt very much I can really add much to what the indieweb community already understands what they need to do. A stroll through Chris’s #indieweb channel makes that pretty clear.

Even in the short time I’ve been attempting to implement some of the principles here it has become simpler. I started with sempress at the end of 2014 but didn’t really take it much further although I read a bit and installed known.

It took micro.blog where I began to see the effects of webmentions from more than tweets to accelerate my interest.

Even in the short time micro.blog has been around the process has improved. The WordPress plugins seem much improved.

From my POV there seems to be several possible sticking points.

philosophy

I’ve instinctively alway enjoyed the idea of owning my own online space. This was backed up with an understanding of the Domain of one’s own idea through #DS106. This took a long time to think through, often with practical experience (posterous). We are really just scratching the surface of being online and everything that this brings with it, many folk will just not be interested in owning their own space.

In the U.K. there is a strong culture of home ownership compared to, say, Germany where renting is more popular it might be worth exploring the cultural reasons for decisions made between owning and renting.

learning

I’ve approached the IndieWeb from the same angle as I’ve taken to other technologies. I poke about a bit, try things out, change parameters and avoid reading instructions unless I am stuck. When stuck I search feather than read from the start. I am more likely to read a blog post that a manual. This method works well up to a point. With something that is a complex in both principal and execution as the indieweb I think it has some drawbacks. I’ve headed the wrong way a few times.

Engaging with members of the indieweb community is a really marvellous way to make progress. I didn’t really find my way into that until I used micro.blog.

The manual is pretty good, but there is a lot to understand.

Getting Started on WordPress is great too.

Perhaps shorter how-toos that don’t link off too much might and have a smaller scope might help generation 2 & 3? I am not the best person to judge this.

Some friction comes with the power. Especially if you have already got a blog, workflows etc going. I’ve found quite a few assumptions I had were slightly wrong.

nuts and bolts and choices

One of the difficulties that I found is that there are several ways to do most things. This is of course good, but can be confusing.

For example:

I had jetpack publishing my posts to twitter. When I started using micro.blog I took up a subscription for posting to Twitter, to see how it went and to pay something for the service.

I really like the way micro.blog posts images to Twitter, they look good, but they do not get webmentions in the same way other posts that go to twitter do.

I don’t like the way likes and replies that are posted on my blog are displayed on twitter. They include the Twitter card from my post and look like there should be some blog content behind them. This is fine for a article or longer note but doesn’t really work for replies or like. I guess I’ve not fully worked out how things are happening. Possibly I need to adjust the posts length or titles. I also dislike the way a quote at the start of the post can look as if it is my content rather than the person quoted.

I do like the way Chris’s replies are cross posted to Twitter. The look pretty much like normal replies except they are posted from his blog.

I wonder if using the bridgy publish plugin to send out my posts to twitter would be better.

This is just one example of a process I am, if not struggling with, am in the process of resolving. For me the process is interesting and certainly worth going through, I can see why some folk would not bother for the sake of owning a tweet.

All of this is harder than using a silo.

As I’ve tried the odd reply, like and bookmark here, I’ve had to slow down a bit. For replies at least this might be seen as an advantage. Moving toward a slow web avoiding this: You like my like of your like of my status on Vimeo.

Something’s I’ve decided, at the moment at least, to leave in silos, I like flickr, love it’s api and have the originals locally. My Videos on YouTube are mostly throwaway and I don’t think I could afford to host. They can wait while I slowly deal with what are more interesting issues to me.

This will probably not help Chris but it did help me realise that I’ve made some progress, enjoyed it and will continue. I don’t need to build my space in a day.

Finally I wonder how Chris replies to several people at once? I guess it is a known feature.

A last though, as I click Publish, will this end up as a comment on Chris’s post? How will it look on twitter, on micro.blog, I can’t say I am wholly confident that I know!

When I post a like or reply the postkinds plugin grabs title and author and puts it at the top of the post. Look ok on blog but when it arrives on microblog the heart image is gone and the quote looks as if it might be mine. Same with twitter. I need to fix that. Somehow…

I'm probably an archetypal #indieweb end-user. Love geeky stuff but I'm not a programmer... by Rob FairheadRob Fairhead (Raretrack's Known Site)
I'm probably an archetypal #indieweb end-user. Love geeky stuff but I'm not a programmer or a developer. Have used Known for a few years now, and I'm definitely signed up to the whole #indieweb philosophy. But goodness me, it's hard and silos are always there with their superficially attractive "com...

I like this, pretty much how I feel at the moment.

a post by Chris AldrichChris Aldrich (Chris Aldrich)
@cdevroe @johnjohnston Ideally, it would be best if people were using their own blogs for direct replies. Then *if* they choose to syndicate those responses to micro.blog, it would be best if micro.blog were able to parse that reply and see the in-reply-to mf2 class to be able to properly find and t...

@c
Thanks. Micro.blog feels more like a reader than a silo to me.

I am in complete agreement with you about the advantages or replying on your own site. However, at the moment, it can be a slightly confusing experience.

Posting here I could use the Indieweb reply bookmarklet and or fill in the ‘Post properties’ section on the WordPress post editor (provided by one of the Indieweb plugins). On some sites I could also paste a link to my post into the site I am replying too. I could try all three.

The results both here and on the site replied to vary. I am not sure I’ve managed to send a webmention to a known site from here. On some sites this will produce a link on others the whole text.

On this site, using the ‘post properties’ I’ll get the whole of your post quoted as a huge link.

I guess I should spend more time reading to understand exactly what is going on but I then to lazily expect to be able to work out things by doing.

Replies from Micro.blog and oh hai, comments – Colin Devroe (cdevroe.com)
However, this is causing me a bit of frustration because it feels as though the conversation about a post is happening on Micro.blog rather than on people’s own blogs.

Here I get the text from comments on micro.blog replies and from replies to that reply. Colin’s blog only seems to get a link to micro.blog.

I am not really sure how it is all glued together. The final piece would be to be able to join the micro.blog thread from the comments here, that might be a technical step too far?